Reflections On Blacksburg and Seattle: Humanity and Technology, Violence and Guns
On Monday morning, 16 April, shots rang out on the campus of Virginia Tech, Blacksburg, my alma mater. To date, 33 deaths: mass murder/suicide of students and faculty (and perhaps staff, we just don't know yet).
I learned of the first murder by e-mail, working from home; the second, logging on to Google News at Chicago's O'Hare airport en route to Seattle from a quick trip home to Georgia. The one more distant geographically (2,780 miles away, according to Google maps) has had the greatest emotional impact. Together, they have caused me to rethink my beliefs about humanity and technology, violence, guns.
Humanity and Technology
What is it about the human animal that causes us to rubberneck at roadside collisions? Whatever it is, that base voyeuristic impulse seems magnified by the always on technologies of the Internet, specifically instant messaging and blogs.
In my Blogging, Media and Politics class today, we talked about student (blog) journals and Flickr photos as forms of citizen journalism. And some (not all) are: they provide insight and information about a story that would not survive the filters of editors and news producers. At least, not before the 24x7 Internet news cycle.
The ability to put a human face on the tragedy is one of the greatest benefits of these new media technologies.
The ease with which people can spew, gossip, wring hands, pontificate, or metaphorically drive back-and-forth, rubbernecking, is a major drawback.
The 24x7 always on Internet news cycle has another, insidious, side effect: an apparent belief that any threat should be immediately broadcast, verified or not. I speak here, of the insistence by some students and media pundits that Virginia Tech officials did not react quickly enough to contain the shooter. Many people are trotting out an event that occurred in August 2006 as an example of how the University could have communicated quickly if it was so inclined.
But they're wrong.
According to the Roanoke Times (Roanoke is the largest metro area near Blacksburg), on Sunday, 20 August, at 2.30 am a convict escaped in Blacksburg, shooting a security guard and deputy. On Monday, 21 August 2006 at 7.15 am, the escaped convict killed a deputy downtown, adjacent to campus.
[The University] sent out a warning Sunday (by e-mail, one assumes) about Morva's escape, but after Monday's shooting most students were still going about their business, going to classes and getting coffee at Squires Student Center until about 10 a.m. Amid reports that someone fitting Morva's description was inside Squires, the building was evacuated.
... students were told to go home and stay inside residence halls if they lived on campus. Classes were canceled and employees sent home.
From time of first shooting to canceling classes: seven plus hours. From time of first death to canceling classes: about three hours.
Compare that to Monday's tragedy: 7.15 am 9-1-1 call and death of a man and a woman in a dorm. By 7.30, the dorm is secured, and police believe this is a double homicide, "an isolated incident." (Crime statistics bear them out this belief.) At 8.25 am, University officials meet to "assess the situation," and at 9 am the campus police chief briefs them. At 9.26 am, the Administration sends out its first e-mail. (That's amazingly fast, speaking as someone who has been a corporate communications official). This is slightly more than 2 hours after the 9-1-1 call.
The second 9-1-1 call comes in at 9.45 am from Norris Hall. At 9.50 am, "Virginia Tech officials send a second e-mail, warning students that a gunman is loose on campus." That's five minutes.
Three hours after the first 9-1-1 call (10.16), classes are canceled.
Now you tell me: how, exactly, would you have speeded up the communication process? How, exactly, would you have been able to determine that the first shooting was not to be an isolated incident, but was instead the first step in the largest mass murder in the history of this country?
Violence
America glorifies violence and antagonism. Just watch TV (network or cable). Or Hollywood. Or (too?) many computer games like Grand Theft Auto. Or listen to gangsta rap.
I know I'm not saying anything particularly "new" ... here's Bobby Kennedy, 1968 (yes, I know Obama quoted Kennedy, too):
Yet we seemingly tolerate a rising level of violence that ignores our common humanity and our claims to civilization alike. We calmly accept newspaper reports of civilian slaughter in far off lands. We glorify killing on movie and television screens and call it entertainment. We make it easy for men of all shades of sanity to acquire weapons and ammunition they desire.
Young people (males are the high risk group) aged 18-24 are in the highest risk age group for homicides and are in the age group committing the most murders (rate per 100,000 population).
Much of that risk is drug-culture related. Not applicable here.
Most violence against women is domestic violence. That is, the woman knows the perp. Intimately.
A friend wonders if the police had not assumed the first two deaths in Blacksburg were domestic violence related ... if it had been two males, murdered, for example ... would their resulting actions have been any different? It's a good question for the police department to undertake as it reflects on this week's tragedy.
As for the rest of us, I think we need to reflect on Bobby's words. We have to decide which "popular culture" icons fit into our value system and which don't -- and then share that with our children and honor that belief with our pocketbooks. (Remember, it was the pocketbook that brought down Imus; nothing more, nothing less.)
Guns
I'm a southern girl. I was raised with guns -- shotguns, rifles, pistols. When I was 10 or 11, my wish list for Santa included (at the top) a 4-10 shotgun. (I was disappointed; the stocking graced a lowly BB gun. I may have been a tomboy, but my cousin and I learned that our mothers trumped fathers when December 25 rolled around.)
No this is not going to be a diatribe about gun control.
First, this was an extreme event, at least in America. (See Juan Cole for a different perspective.)
In the US, less than 1% of all homicides have more than two victims. And in 2004 (latest data available), there were only 11 murders (.07%) in the US with five or more victims.
It is extremely bad public policy to try to write laws to attempt to control outliers.
But ... (you knew there had to be a but, right?) ... arming every citizen isn't the answer, either. As Amy Kovac wrote last August, a 2001 Harvard School of Public Health study revealed:
Americans feel less safe rather than more safe as more people in their community begin to carry guns. By margins of at least nine to one, Americans do not believe that "regular" citizens should be allowed to bring their guns into restaurants, college campuses, sports stadiums, bars, hospitals, or government buildings.
And it's not an easy thing to point a gun at another human, even when threatened, my friends who are gun-owners tell me. I don't know; I've not been in that situation. But a New England Journal of Medicine study suggests a gun in the home is "more likely to kill a family member or a friend than it is to be used against an intruder."
So I don't think it's a good idea for the US to revert to a wild west mentality and have every citizen licensed with a concealed weapon permit. Given the state of road rage in America, I believe this is a particularly bad idea.
What then, do we do?
First, we acknowledge that if someone wants to kill another person and is willing to die in the attempt, there is little if anything we can do to stop the murder.
Second, we acknowledge that our universities are institutions with a history and culture of openness. Students are, for the most part, legally adults. (They can marry without parental consent. They can vote. If we had a draft, they are older than draft age. Most can't legally drink, yet, however.)
This is one area where comparisons with high schools (metal detectors, chain link fences) falls down on a logical plane. It also falls down on a practical one. Universities are hundreds or thousands of acres in size and have a population as much as an order of magnitude larger than high schools.
Third, in this era of instant communications and color-coded terrorism threats, we must acknowledge that it is impossible for every conceivable risk to be communicated to every riskee within seconds of someone determining that there might be a risk. We have to trust those charged with protecting public health and welfare to know what they are doing. We also have to become engaged in civic affairs, properly fund said institutions, and engage in the civic duty envisioned by our founders: become informed, be a government watchdog, go to the polls, and throw the bums out if they shirk their responsibility.
Should we explore means other than e-mail for alerting students, faculty, and staff of on-campus risks? Of course. But a flood of irrelevant information is just as bad as a paucity. Call it the "boy who cried wolf" syndrome ... or, to reference a technology example, the "do you really want to do that" software prompt that is ineffectual in stopping you from deleting an important file.
Finally, we grieve for those lost in this latest, uniquely American, tragedy.
Related:- Locking Down the VT Campus: 3CI & "Should Have", Ardith, Newsvine
- Slow Down Demands for Gun Control, Tom Head, Guide to Civil Liberties
- Major Sources, Citizens Contribute to Coverage, Bridget Johnson, Guide to Journalism
- Does America Value Gun Rights More Than Students?, Deborah White, Guide to Liberal Politics
Comments
Dear Kathy,
I sincerely feel sorry for all the students and teachers who have been killed, some of them in heroic attempts to protect their students or colleagues. I have been hooked by the event, here in the Netherlands, just like any other Westerner addicted to mass media.
But (I can use this myself: there is always one), there are two things which struck me. The first is indeed the fact that it is so easy to buy a non-hunting weapon in the USA and especially in Virginia. That a 23 years old kid (sorry, but at that age, we are still kids) with a known mental instability can simply buy not one but two guns and an awful lot of ammunition and wear them and use them is simply unbelievable for a European like me.
Don’t take me wrong, I am a male and I like guns too. I lived in the countryside where everyone had sporting carbines and old guns from WWII and the resistance time, beside the obvious hunting guns. I can shoot myself pretty well. But I know for a fact that it is hormones and pride acting, not good sense.
I also know that in Europe, thanks to our very tight gun control laws, we don’t have anything like Colombine or Virginia Tech massacre. Since Australia did the same, they also don’t have anything comparable. Of course, we still have gangsters buying weapons. But this has little to do with gun control. And gang gun violence is rarely focused on civilians here, rather on other gangsters.
My second point, if you can excuse my rather lengthy reply, is the media treatment. Don’t take me wrong, I have a lot of respect for all the victims and their families and friends. Nobody should have to suffer such a horrible loss. But the media treatment (which I consciously participate in) is simply revolting. There are many more horrible things happening in the world which simply go unreported or underreported. But there is no live CNN coverage there to tell the world. No UN General Secretary to mourn for the fallen people. Who is mourning for the hundreds killed in Central Asia every day, for the slaves exploited in mining in Africa, for the civilians taken in gunfights in Brazil? All of these, or nearly all, victims of exploitation or repression by our own countries and companies, or at least with their complicity. It is simply disgusting of lack of fairness and balance.
Here’s the problem I have with the university’s response: in the delay between the first shooting and the second shooting, university officials knew that the police did not have the shooter in custody. Even if they had reason to believe the shooter had gone off campus, they should have locked everything down until they were sure that a.) the shooter was captured, b.) the shooter was dead or c.) the shooter was reported as being somewhere else in the state. Anything else, even if it disrupted the flow of campus life, is too big of a risk.
Hello, Alphast — thank you for your comments. Not surprisingly, perhaps, I agree with the spirit and, quite, possibly, the letter of your post.
I don’t understand the fascination or need for non-military citizens to own guns designed strictly for killing other people. These aren’t “hunting” weapons.
I just don’t know how we (America) can have a rational discussion about the issue. :-/
I do think this is “news” worldwide because it is an outlier event (those are newsworthy) in American culture — and it reflects the negative stereotype of America (gun-toting).
Hello, Eric:
Please tell me how you’d proceed to “lock down” (and define that term, as well) a 2600 acre campus. How many people and how long do you think it would take?
Dear Kathy,
I certainly agree with you on the outlier nature of the event. I am not too sure, though, that it is the fact that it reflects negative aspects of American culture that attracts world attention. Despite all the rantings Europeans (including myself) have against the USA, there is still here a genuine admiration or at least sense of friendship for America’s culture, achievements and power.
I am wondering if the weight of the event (in a similar manner to 9/11, proportions apart) is not simply due to the weight of Anglo-Saxon mass media in the world. Be it in traditional or new media (such as this one), the English language is omnipresent and simply does not let any space for the expression of other languages and, as a consequence, of other news.
Again, I don’t deny the (negative) importance of such an event in itself. But I am a bit disappointed that it simply covered all other possibly more important ones in the world at the same time.
Kathy,
A few different ways: contacting resident advisers and have them knock on doors. Send out an email sooner than two hours after the first shooting. Call extensions in dorm rooms to alert students and department secretaries to alert teachers and students in classrooms. If the school has a list of student cell phone numbers (which might not be a bad precaution in the future), call them and let them know. It would have required a great deal of work by a small number of administration personnel, but I think we’d agree that’s better than 30 additional deaths.
Hi, Alphast — you make a good point about the dominance of western media. Very good point. I don’t know — but did any US TV station or major newspaper include on the front page today that 300 civilians were killed in Iraq on Wednesday?
Hello, Eric:
Have you any idea of the logistics involved in placing calls to phones in dorm rooms and/or student cell phones … when there are 26,000 students?
I promise you either calling scenario would have taken longer than two hours.
Let’s do the math: say 3 seconds to dial, 2 seconds before being answered, 5 second message: 10 seconds per call. (No busy signals. No voice mail. No gap between calls. Automated dialing.) We’re at 260,000 seconds -> 4,333 minutes -> 70+ man hours.
Yes, I know there are computer systems that can do this sort of auto-dialing — but my purpose is to show the magnitude of calling 26,000 cell phones, in optimal conditions.
AFA the “send an e-mail quicker” suggestion … please review the timeline (above) and tell me *exactly* where you are going to shave off the minutes. Life is not a Hollywood movie, there is no “super hero” who can make instant decisions for institutions (police, University) and who has superhuman insight into the fact that what appears to be a (fairly) routine shooting is not.
I truly do not believe that there was a way to prevent the deaths in Norris Hall. Maybe, if the shooter had not had a semi-automatic weapon (with ammo that was illegal until 2004) … the death toll might have been slightly reduced had someone been able to overpower him when he reloaded. Maybe.
If the shooter had had only a “normal” pistol — requiring that the trigger be pulled each time — requiring a stop and manual reload of each chamber — the odds of someone being able to overpower him would go up. Significantly.
But as long as he was willing to die in the process of killing others … there is no way to stop him from doing just that.
There is no middle ground as long as the liberal (leftist?) media uses incidents like the one(s) at Virginia Tech as part of a campaign to ban guns- or “high capacity” pistol / rifle magazines, “cop killer bullets”, or “assault rifles”- as the weapon(s) were FIRST (gleefully) reported to be, not simple handguns. The obscene, repeated playing of the videos of this obviously psychotic young man (first reported as “depressed” or “suicidal”) by CNN, MSNBC, and the other media networks clearly fuels “copycat” actions. Are ratings for media worth any more blood from innocent, unarmed, (disarmed by government) civilians?
I am a retired federal LEO. I am also an adjunct college instructor- a very nice retirement job, which i love. i am also disarmed by college policy- but the crazies are never disarmed. what is one more felony to a crazy / psychotic killer? gun bans mean nothing. even if you don’t allow all adult students to be armed, let teachers, administrators, professors, and staff members carry sidearms, if they are qualified (pretty simple quals) and volunteer to do so.
one such man or woman in Norris Hall would have ended this rampage, with a minimum loss of life. also, the usual
“contain and call SWAT, etc” policies merely cost more lives. I say this as an LEO with 20+ years of service, a firearms instructor, and a former NY state police PPC and combat pistol ranked match shooter and member of my department’s pistol team. Anyone with simlar training- or even less training- could have ended this tragedy instantly, after determining who had the gun out and was shooting.
we did a demonstration for our managers years ago, when converting from .357 magnum revolvers to 9mm semi-auto pistols- ironically, the same Glock 19 this psycho used. We did speed drills with 10 round (the 1994 clinton ban sized magazines, which some police departments still limit their officers to using) and 15 round magazines (these always have been legal for police and LEOs, and since 9/2004 legal again for purchase by civilians, after the Clinton Ban expired- a ten year limit).
most of our managers were LEOs, but not shooters, and most were big city raised.
All a ban on larger capacity magazines means is the shooter in these incidents will have to reload a few more times. We showed this- our managers were considering copying the then NYPD limit of 10 rounders to their officers. The difference in reload times, and total rounds fired downrange, were in 1 to 3 seconds, and even fractions of seconds, for similar amounts of firepower. (Most police/LEO shootings do not exceed six rounds total, at close range.) Most civilians do not have the mindset or the force of will to charge a psychotic shooter and attack him. The only thing that will save lives is MORE, not fewer guns. Just think of OSAMA BIN LADEN and his friends watching the US media gun control dance, giggling as they decide which American “gun free”, politically correct zone will be most fun to attack- a college, a local school, a movie theatre, or a shooping mall?
Get with the israeli program, start handing out guns, and training in their use, particularly to school teachers and administrators. Save lives, don’t use these “incidents” as fuel for the left wing screams for ever more gun controls- which as we all know, are really calls for gun bans. if you are from the South- or the Plains, the Mountain States, etc.-, deep in your heart you know this. the news media and the government do NOT have all the answers, and post 9/11/01, we are all potential victims of these acts.
lastly- especially for writer 8- 2004 was a “sunset” of an illegal US law- nothing new. do some research on gun control in America and elsewhere. it usually is used to disarm minorities so they can be more easily controlled, enslaved, or killed. study, read more, get informed. find some understanding of the basic American Constitutional term, “fundamental right”, as are guaranteed (not, and NEVER given by the government) in the Bill of Rights. Can you trust your governemnt, or college, etc., to protect you, always? nope… take the responsibility of a citizen- not a subject- it goes along with the freedoms and the rights.
Hello, JB
First, I am writer #8. My statement about the ammo being illegal (now reported to be 33 round clips) until 2004 is *accurate.* Yes, the bill sunset and Congress did not extend it. That does not make it any less illegal.
Second, I appreciate a perspective from a LEO. However, your continued reference to the shooter in pejorative terms (psycho) is no more “balanced” than the behavior you accuse the media of.
Third, your comment contains inconsistencies, IMO. You write:
< < Most civilians do not have the mindset or the force of will to charge a psychotic shooter and attack him. >>
Why, then, do you think most civilians need to be armed and that an armed civilian would have a) been in the right place at the right time and b) would have had the mindset to shoot.
Fourth, you claim that it takes only 1-3 seconds to reload a semi-automatic pistol — and that this minor delay is shooting is insufficient to both with banning the sale of rounds of ammo such as this.
One second? Really? I find this unbelieveable.
Finally, look at murder statistics from other democratic countries. Like Japan, for example. Zero kids killed by guns — contrasted to the US, where I think they are the leading cause of death, especially for young men.
Your comment about minorities is also suspect, given the following data from CDC:
– In 2003, 5,570 young people ages 10 to 24 were murdered—an average of 15 each day. Of these victims, 82% were killed with firearms (CDC 2006).
– Although high-profile school shootings have increased public concern for student safety, school-associated violent deaths account for less than 1% of homicides among school-aged children and youth (Anderson et al. 2001).
– Among 10 to 24 year olds, homicide is the leading cause of death for African Americans, the second leading cause of death for Hispanics, and the third leading cause of death for American Indians, Alaska Natives, and Asian/Pacific Islanders (CDC 2006).
– Of the 5,570 homicides reported in 2003 among 10 to 24 year olds, 86% were males and 14% were females (CDC 2005).
Dear uspolitics (”#8″):
the “33 round clips” are not the ammo (ammunition). the ammunition goes in the magazine (clip). the 33 round Glock factory magazine is made for the fully automatic Glock 18, which, except for a few imported for government and police training and use, have not been usually imported into the USA, and are illegal for civilians in several states, such as NY, NJ, MD, MA, and CA. These clips are legal in the other states, and fit in the Glock 19 (4 inch barrrel, 15 + 1 rounds – or 10+1 rounds) or the Glock 17 (4.5. inch barrel, 17 + 1 rounds, both 9mm Parabellum/Luger/NATO),and which is used by several NATO countries as their primary sidearm. the “19″ is also a NATO “substitute” pistol, and is very popular with police and civilians with “carry permits”, such as private security, investigators, etc. they stick out, though, and make the pistol bulky to use- the 33 rounder is long…
as to “minorities”, please don’t be touchy. i intentionally didntmention minorities, except as targets for racial hate, attack, and in some cases, genocide. i was not discussing the state of crime, homicide, gangs, or anything else many people in the US associate with “minorities”. I was thinking more in terms of the people in Rwanda who were slaughtered (nearly a million) 12 years ago. I bet some of them would have liked to have had a pistol, or something more effective, to save their lives or the lives of their families. The Jews, gypsies, and others killed by Hitler(and Stalin)during World War II may have seen this need to protect themselves, but of course far too late. Your stats re violent crime are a little off; generally 15-24 age group for homicide, victims are usually either gang members themselves, or innocent bystanders in the same community where the underlying criminal activity is taking place, etc. those are issues for another debate, such as drug legalization, the role of racism in both drug control and gun control laws, the “de-citizenation” of racial minorities by the “war on drugs” and the (now) war on guns in this country since the 1960s especially- gee, right after the civil rights act and voting rights acts were passed- you get your vote, and then it is taken away, for – what- an ounce of marijuana? as i said- a discussion for another day. we may have more views in common than you might believe-see Libertarian.
you are clearly a Liberal, and have a certain viewpoint of CERTAIN personal liberties, such as the fundamental right guaranteed- not granted, the government does not grant us rights, they are ours, paid for in blood from time to time- in the Second Amendment to the federal Constitution- forindividuals- citizens, which, by the way, this poor psychotic young man was not- and that is not demeaning, it is what he was, psychotic, look it up, add delusional, paranoid, and probably a few other things the mental health types could classify him as, and he was probably, on top of all else, given the wrong drugs if he was initially diagnosed as “depressed”- many of the “school shooters” over the past two decades have been on anti depressants, and there are links to suicidal and homicidal tendencies in young people given the wrong drugs- read up on it.
these rights are legally, called”fundamental rights”. we will probably see a us supreme court case on this issue in the next few years, as “your” side hates guns, and wants to ban them- but this part of our supreme law of the law recognizes this as an individual right of the citizen. a hint- States/the federal government have POWERS, not RIGHTS. we have rights- persons,individuals. Judges who write the State militias-the now national guard- is all that is covered by the Second Amendment are abusing their power and betraying their oath by injecting their personal beliefs into their decisions. that they do this in other areas is enlightening, but not very surprising. If you read PEOPLE consistently in the Bill of Rights and the main body of the Constitution, no other interpretation is legally or logically correct- it is simply that the Judges in the 2nd (NY, VT), 3rd (NJ, PA), and 9th (mainly California, the most overturned Circuit Court) Circuits are mostly “left wing” and inject their personal politics- such as gun hating- into their opinions. The 5th Circuit, etc. (see U.S. v. Emerson) have a diametrically opposed view. The great Constitutional scholar from Harvard, Laurence Tribe (see Gore v. Bush, 2000), recently admitted the Second Amendment guarantees a personal, individual right to keep (own, possess) and bear (carry) arms- guns, and other weapons. this has “upset” many of his fellow Harvard Law School Professors… he even changed the text of his standard text on the Bill of Rights to reflect his view, and he personally HATES guns, of all kinds and types.
If you want to change the Constitution, and you can get 38 States to go along with your view(s), then may (your) God bless your efforts. Incidentally, I referred to Israel arming its school staffs- this happened after a massacre of school children and teachers by terrorists. it has NEVER been repeated.
regards, JBC
Sorry- Lastly, #8, I was referring to attacking the shooter while we “law abiding” citizens, obeying our nutty government even when we know it clearly is in error, have been DISARMED. Simply shooting him, if he is shooting at you, or your students (as I am an adjunct Instructor, I follow my college policy and do not ‘carry’, though I am legally allowed to, OFF school grounds, as a retired officer)- that is easy enough, as a reaction to the imminent danger.
I referred to the force of will and mindset required to charge him, attack while unarmed, and cripple or kill him (and they are nearly always younger males) as quickly and efficiently as possible to save other lives, rather than running away, or- as at Virginia Tech, having to jump out a window. That requires a military, or very strongly disciplined law enforcement mindset and set of skills that most people simply don’t possess. I do. It would not be pretty. I would probably get shot, but I WILL put him down, hopefully before he got off many shots. Remember “fight or flight” from your basic college psychology? Get it now?
Charging a “nut” firing a gun, while- to obey our laws- I am disarmed – not high on my list of things to do today, but I know I can do it, if I must, and to protect my students (or family) – well, I just hope I never have to.
Regards, JBC
Hi, JB:
First, the latest press reports I’ve read (I have not read lots of them) said that the police found 33 round clips at the scene. I’m sorry that I am not being as precise in terminology as you’d like — to the average person, the clip with bullets is “ammo.”
You did not answer my questions. Instead, your post focused on me (”don’t be touchy” … “you are clearly a Liberal” …etc.) You attribute viewpoints to me that I have not expressed.
I fail to see how the situation in Rwanda has anything to do with guns in the US.
IF owning guns = being “safe” … then the US should be the safest place in the western world. We have the highest rate of handgun ownership. We are not, however, the safest place, at least for youth (in the US, most of those who are younger than 25 who are killed are killed with guns).
Rejecting the claim that arming citizens makes everyone safer is not the same thing as saying “we should ban guns.” IF you had actually read my column, you would know that.
dear us politics:
actually, we are no longer, strictly, a western, (European) country, in the old fashioned sense. see cultural geography etc. we are a very multi cultural nation,due to immigration policy since the 1965 law, when only 250,000 were allowed in by quota. incidentally, the quota kept going up with the abortion rate, as we needed to literally replace those “workers/taxpayers” for the next generation. both figures are now over one million per year, (high was 1994) excluding refugees. further, our new immigrants (post 1965 IRAC) are mostly from the third world, as US law now excludes most Europeans- a form of reverse discrimination, in fact. we now have the highest percentage of new immigrants as a fraction of population EVER, with very little assimilation in sight. this % counts both “legal” and “illegal” immigrants, all groups.
also, we are not ‘number one’ in gun ownership. actually, we are number 3 among the larger countries, whether you are talking about long arms (rifles, shotguns, real or cosmetic effect/ looking “assault rifles, etc.) or pistols. Switzerland is No. 1, with nearly universal gun ownership. They also have very little crime, with most of their ‘common’ crime problem being attributed to poor imimgrant laborers/ guest workers. In all but the largest cities, like Geneva and Zurich, private citizens can own and possess, right in the city, fully automatic, real, live machine guns- and they don’t go out and shoot each other. that is their personal weapons horde. the swiss HAVE recently banned “hollow point” pistol ammo, to make the other Europeans happy- but you can keep thousands of rounds of military type ammo, if you want to. they are also ISSUED military weapons by their government, and the basic load of ammo for each weapon, including full auto/burst/semi auto assault rifles, and light machine guns, in addition to pistols- depending on rank, etc.- as each Swiss male is a member of the military- unless mentally or physically unfit to serve. they DID have a local multiple murder/suicide a few years ago, which is so rare there it made the international news, where a neighbor in one of the italian “cantons”- states- shot four or five members of the family next door. he was, of course, “ill”.
Turkey is No. 2 in gun ownership. i have friends there. they can own personal long arms and pistols. apart from the separatist kurds in the southeast, who used to be armed and aided by the russians to de-stabilize Turkey,a NATO member, they used to have very little crime. that has changed, as the kurds have started to mass in istanbul and other large cities, and are the cause of much of their crime problem. but turkish citizens have ready access to guns- not MGs, though.
there are other smaller countries, where the citizens appear under arms- carrying swords and firearms- to vote. the carriage of arms is symbolic of their status as free, voting citizens. their crimes rates, for statistical purposes, do not exist. guess why? they can wander around freely carrying guns if they want to, in public, without being forced to go through “metal detectors” at every public building, etc. see some of the tiny “mini states” of europe. they are all homogeneous populations with full employment, no racial issues, no cultural issues, etc.
and what does rwanda, or the holocaust, have to do with american gun ownership? no one is going to propose, or attempt, to exterminate a racial or other minority group, ever, in the USA precisely because we are very heavily armed, as a body of citizens. the attacks on gun ownership, among other causes-high taxes, crowds of people, etc., have caused further polarization between parts of the USA. many gunowners have left california- also taxpayers, etc. the same is true for NJ, NY, MA. every new gun ban, every new tax, causes more people to leave. this is a cultural attitude that does not allow for disagreement between thoughtful people. people are “voting with their feet”, and the culture of gun ownership, hunting, etc., which is perfectly ok in most of the country is no longer seen as welcome in the northeast and california. the taxes, the hordes of people crowding the areas around the biggest cities, as people try to escape to a better life, are both a result and a symptom. we risk splitting into separate countries over such issues. i listened to the news show on nbc this am (sunday).two of the “commentators” were literally yelling, screaming, for more gun control, post virginia tech. when you are reduced to screeching, there is not much to discuss on a rational level.
i hope you are never in a position where you are wishing for a gun to save your life- either in a rwanda type genocidal situation, here or abroad, or in a “street crime” type situation. it will be far too late to realize that the gun is a tool and its use is governed by the mind and personality of the person who carries it, for good purpose or for evil. go out and buy a gun- if you are “allowed to” where you live- if for nothing else, as an expression of your fundamental civil right as an american to do so, if you chose to exercise that right. if not- hope there is someone like me around who has one when you are in that sort of mortal danger, and the deranged with machetes (rwanda), guns (cambodia- 1/3 of the country slaughtered), etc., are coming for ‘you,man (or woman),you’. like i said- i hope you never find yourself in that tight spot. best regards, jbc
uspolitics you seem to blame everything on the gun and not the person behind the gun. As for making these guns illegal what is going to stop these people from bringing them in illegally. Would you rather take weapons away from everybody so that way when the criminal does decide to attack you are left defenseless. You are as bad as Rosie Odonell she is very well known for her anit gun movement. What everybody doesnt know is how much of a hypocrite she is. She feels the regular american citizen shouldnt be allowed to carry a weapon, but her body guards who are not police carry guns. You also seem to think semi automatic weapons are not used for hunting. I use semi automatic weapons every year hunting and it is perfectly legal. Maybe the US should start cracking down on the gun laws before they try to take peoples guns away. It is a US law that no felon is allowed to own a gun use a gun or even have a gun in the house which they reside in. I know plenty of people who have a felony on their record that own guns. As for you comparing the US to other countries for gun crimes and deaths there is no doubt your statistics are correct. I wouldnt blame that on the gun though I would blame that on the lack of parenting and teaching children to stay out of trouble. Plus in other countries their law systems are much more brutal. Maybe if the punishment for crimes involving guns in america were harsher you would see these crimes diminish.
Hello, Paul.
I truly don’t “get” where you are coming from in your accusation that I am “blam[ing] everything on the gun and not the person behind the gun.”
I’m pretty sure that there is no blame at all in this column. There is CLEARLY nothing about “taking our guns away.”
Your points about the needc to enforce the laws on the books are valid.
You write, “I know plent of people who have a felony on their record who have a gun in their house.”
I know no one with a felony on their record. What sorts of people do you associate with?
Us politics Its not that I am friends with these people its that I know they have felonies and that they do hunt and do own guns. In many states now it is a felony for a DUI not always on the first offense but in many on the second offense it is a felony automatically. I didnt mean to take all that out on you personally it was basically a rant as I hear so many people wanting to take away guns and thinking that will fix everything. Its kind of ironic one day you read in a news paper about a person receiving a second DUI which in my state (PA) is an automatic felony and the next week you see a picture of that person in the paper with a trophy buck or some animal they have shot. I feel the gun control laws in the US are good if they were enforced. I am an upstanding citizen who is well involved with my community and local politics and am well known for that. I just like to be able to go out and hunt with my guns. Its a shame that so many people dont use guns for what they are intended for and ruin it for everybody that has fun with them whether its hunting game or shooting target.
Hi, Paul … thanks for your followup.
DUI=felony on 1st or 2nd conviction? Where? And who actually gets _convicted_ of a DUI the first time they’re changed?
In Pennsylvania DUI is taken very seriously our blood alcohol limit is .08 to drive. The police take it very seriously and nobody is ever let off. If youre blood alcohol content is between .08 and .1 there is no felony charge. If your alcohol content is over .1 on first charge you can face 48 hours to 6 months jail time. The second violation of DUI is automatic jail time in pa 5 days to 6 months mandatory. Anything which involves a sentence which could involve jail time is a felony. These are the PA laws on DUI they are very easy to find on the net. Sorry for having taken this so far off the original topic just trying to explain myself.